"Patrick Nichols" (pnichols)
03/24/2015 at 09:14 • Filed to: None
2
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"Patrick Nichols" (pnichols)
03/24/2015 at 09:14 • Filed to: None | 2
| 14 |
So I am not a 911 fan per se but I really like the look of the slant nose. So I recently found out there was a factory option on certain 930 gen 911s to get the same look and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! would be my starting point.
First change : Engine Swap. Insert 2.5 turbo from an STI (I know this could be seen as sacrilege but it would be mainly to get some sort of reliability and better parts availability). Find someway to fit a manual 5 or 6 speed (possibly sequential?).
Second Change : Pop-up headlight delete. I don't really like the look of pop-ups on these and it would get rid of the motors that would inevitably break and a pain in the ass to fix.
Third Change : Sunroof delete. Lighter, less electrics, no leaks, more headroom, etc. What's not to like?
Fourth change : Semi-stripped and caged interior. So strip out all the old electrics and dashboard.
Replace w/ sporty but still luxurious black seats with houndstooth inserts.
Black dash with modern yet simple stereo (possibly a custom iPad mini setup), simple climate controls (yes I want heat and AC), simple gauge cluster (only displaying speedo, tach, fuel, temp, odo, oil pressure, and boost pressure).
Rear seat delete (more cargo/dog room and no one is going to use those anyways)
Black cage (because no matter how much a car is worth/money you've put into it, it is still worth driving hard and I'd like to survive)
Electric window and mirror delete (I'll adjust by hand to save on the electrics headache)
Fifth change : Body work. Maybe add the turbo vents to portray it's new FI power plant. Get rid of all the plastic/rubber body pieces that are probably rotting anyways and replace with custom fabricated pieces to give it a clean look. Paint a similar (but not identical) scheme to !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! though I'm thinking a light blue instead of copper and brown instead of black.
Also I would want to come up with a catchy name to put in carrera script along the side similar to the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .
Sixth Change : Brakes, Tires, Suspension. I don't have the slightest clue to how these are but I imagine that some updating could be done.
That's it. With a starting point of $50k (though probably going to be much higher by the time I have the anywhere near the amount of money for such a project) I'd hope this could be done somewhere in the $100k range. What do people think? Is any part of this wishful build unrealistic? Is $50k in mods too high/too low? What would be your starting point?
If this ever came to fruition I don't think I'd care about the loss in value that all the mods would have on it and would only let it be bought by some one that would enjoy it as much as I would. Though I'd imagine by the time I have the money we'll all be carted around in autonomous cars, gas will be $20/gal, and driving will be punishable by death or exile Dark Knight Rises style /s
Bonus : Scarecrow gifs because I just realized it's the same dude **Mindblown**
ColoradoTaco
> Patrick Nichols
03/24/2015 at 09:29 |
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Why bother with a slant nose if you're gonna delete the pop ups? It'll be cheaper to use a 911 with the regular round lights
Jobjoris
> Patrick Nichols
03/24/2015 at 09:29 |
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This is sarcasm, right?
PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power
> Patrick Nichols
03/24/2015 at 09:50 |
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K, i'll do one too!
First things first, find an NA Miata. best color choice would be silver, with a black hardtop.
First Change: 3L I-6 out of a BMW 330i ZHP. also, get it's transmission as well, because you need a transmission
Second Change: 4-corner coilovers, and high performance struts, swaybars, and bushings. Tack weld chassis for improved rigidity.
Third Change: Widen bodywork on car. fit 225-width tires up front, and 245-width tires in the rear. Rims should be 16". Wrap rim in new Michelin Pilot PS 2's
Fourth Change: Aux port for the sound system. gotta have music for carving canyons!
Fifth Change: Big-ass, 4-corner, disc brakes with strong-ass 4-piston brake calipers.
Sixth Change: a couple of red SPARCO seats, and a nardi steering wheel/shift knob.
Now, it's the perfect car for any occasion!
This can all be done for about $30K
SPECS:
Hp: ~275hp at 5,800RPM
Torque: ~250ft-lbs at 3000RPM
Weight: ~1,150kg (dry)
Transmission: BMW 6-speed manual from 330i ZHP
0-60: 5.2 seconds
Top speed: 160+ MPH (theoretical)
60-0 stop: 36M
Lateral G's (60 MPH): 1.04G
crowmolly
> Patrick Nichols
03/24/2015 at 09:51 |
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Looks like you are trying to buy a $90k-120k with only 50k, and then destroy its value through mods.
Better off starting with a 911 or maybe regular 930 then adding an aftermarket slant kit.
mybeatersabimmer
> crowmolly
03/24/2015 at 10:08 |
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Yup. The ideas proposed at the top are just ridiculous and uninformed. Why buy the 930 just to make it not a 930? Buy a 911 SC, Slap on a fiberglass Slant Nose, and then violate it however you wish. Just know that god clubs a baby seal for each sin you commit against the 911.
BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Patrick Nichols
03/24/2015 at 11:32 |
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I would hesitate to call an EJ257 more reliable than a properly tuned and maintained air-cooled flat-6 porsche engine.
Turbos, ring-lands, broken timing belts, and all sorts of things can happen with a Subaru engine, not to mention the added complexity of adding water cooling to a car that never accommodated it.
There are people who have already built cars similar to what you describe, except perhaps for the race-spec slant-nose, including this 911 SC
If Singer can get most of 400 horsepower from a Cosworth-built naturally-aspirated 3.6 air-cooled engine, I imagine that there are options for getting ~300 peak horsepower out of them, likely with a newer air-cooled engine swap from a 964 or 993 non-turbo car, and stand-alone engine management that is tuned for the updated engine.
Plus, a naturally aspirated flat-6 is much smoother and more tractable than a turbocharged flat-4, without the sharp lag-to-boost transition which is what helped un-settle the rear end of so many actual 930 Turbos, making them a big handful to drive. It is bad enough with a symmetrical AWD front-engined Subaru, and I know that from my own experience. With a RWD, rear-engined car, in the middle of a corner, to all of the sudden punch the rear tires with a hit of boost, would spin that car around before you know what happened.
With all of the mods you are talking about, a nice 3.0-3.6 liter air-cooled, fuel injected engine swap would not be out of the realm, and less problematic than fitting a Subaru + water-cooling swap.
A 74-89 911 SC or Carrera with an aftermarket race-spec slant-nose fender kit (fender vents, no pop-up lights, either nothing, or flush-fitted lights), an engine swap, a G60 6-speed transaxle, and a the other mods you suggest, would probably get you where you want to be.
If you really wanted something good... do those mods to a 964 with better suspension and brakes to start with... and then back-date the looks if you want an earlier-looking car.
There is a reason that Singer builds their cars on 964 shells, with the updated suspension design... with a little bit of fabrication, it can look like anything preceding it, including a classic long-hood 69-73 long-wheelbase car, which handle better than the 64-68 shorter-wheelbase cars anyway, while looking very similar.
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power
03/24/2015 at 11:57 |
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First off... I see what you did there. It was laid on pretty thick...
But if there is even a shred of reality under that thick blanket of sarcasm... wouldn't something in this realm, without the hyperbole, be somewhat possible by using a BMW Z3 as the baseline?
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Patrick Nichols
03/24/2015 at 12:20 |
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I have always wondered how much of a go-cart the 911 could be stripped down to, and still be road-legal, or to still pass tech for track-racing.
I imagine a 911 slant-nose speedster, stripped down to club-racer spec, and maybe even back-dated to long-hood looks ('64-'73).
The one thing I have never seen, though... and probably because nobody has any use whatsoever for it... and it would look like the amputation it actually would be, of an iconic design...
A long-hood style 911 with a slant-nose, and the headlights deleted, just smooth metal or fiberglass composite above the classic wrap around turn signals up to the wheel arches. Maybe with a bare-minimal projector headlight fitted in somewhere near the turn-signal or marker light location, for bare-minimum road-legality.
All of the slant-nose conversions are for the 74-later impact-bumper models, or newer, and they pretty much all have pop-up headlights to retain road legal status.
For a track-only car, it might be a conversation-piece, though.
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Patrick Nichols
> PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power
03/24/2015 at 18:52 |
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Sounds like fun despite the big headaches of fitting everything in a miata. Also like the fact that you chose to upgrade the stereo (however slightly) rather than remove it. Sometimes I feel like people around here don't like music.
Driving is an enjoyable activity just like many other things I like to listen to music while I do them. Running, snowboarding, drinking, and sex are all good things I like to listen to music to, why do I have to be so infatuated with the exhaust noise.
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Patrick Nichols
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
03/24/2015 at 19:01 |
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Good points! Unlike some people around here you offer some info that I can learn from so thank you!
So maybe a few changes like switching to a 964 chassis with the kit and you might be right about the turbo. I mainly said that because it was comparable to the 930 turbo in terms of power. But maybe a subaru flat six. I know that reliability might not be all that better but my theory is that the subaru parts might be cheaper to replace.
The reason I wanted to use the 930 is because I've read some places that the slant nose came as a factory option and I didn't want to be too much of a poser, but on second thought its all about my enjoyment.
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Patrick Nichols
> ColoradoTaco
03/24/2015 at 19:04 |
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I like the look of the slant nose better but not with the lights up, but I still want headlights. I know its not the popular opinion but I'm a little weird
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Patrick Nichols
03/25/2015 at 00:24 |
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A Subaru engine might be cheaper to repair, but might also be more likely to require repair. Porsche engineering is quite good, especially in the height of the air-cooled era. They steadily improved where there was cause to improve, and kept what worked properly, with not much cause for cost cutting at the price point at which Porsches are originally sold.
An EZ-series Subaru H6 doesn't have much tuning support, despite my theory that it is more capable than Subaru allows it to be, and an EG33 SVX engine is rare, and both require liquid cooling conversion, as mentioned previously.
Figuring out all of the electronics, differing physical connections, mounting points, and liquid cooling, it would be easy to spend more, and get less than just going with a properly built fuel-injected air-cooled Porsche engine and transaxle, built to a reliable standard that should be at least as problem free as a Subaru engine out of it's element.
There is comparatively tons of support for Porsche air-cooled engines, but admittedly at prices geared toward people who can afford to own Porsches... but you are also talking about significant body and chassis mods, as well... so lets just go ahead and assume that this is predicated on being able to afford to properly modify a Porsche without pinching pennies.
If you are talking about a slant-nose conversion without pop-up headlights, and re-skinning the roof with a Club Sport or RS style solid, but lighter weight roof skin, as well as 74 RSR-style bodywork, chassis reinforcement and competition-ready roll cage, then you aren't talking about keeping things stock anyway.
...so it all comes down to tasteful, purposeful, and properly executed modifications, which might as well be done on a body shell that isn't rare, and as mentioned, a 964 has better suspension design right out of the box.
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PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
03/25/2015 at 09:38 |
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I'm actually not being sarcastic. that's how I'd love to build a Miata. not even kidding XD
and I picked NA because pop-up headlights!
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power
03/25/2015 at 11:43 |
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Pop up headlights are cool, but comparatively heavy, and another mechanism to fail.
The Z3 was barely 200lbs heavier (base model somewhere around 2600lbs) than the NA/NB Miata, lighter than most people realize, which is ironic considering how much HEAVIER new BMWs are than they would seem to look, and they already have wider fenders than Miatas, considering that they were considered for BMW ///Motorsport models (Z3 M roadster and M Coupe) from the get-go.
A BMW engine might have a tough time in Miata's engine bay, which is not overly long beyond a 4-cylinder engine, plus all the complications of integrating a BMW engine and gearbox into Mazda's PowerPlantFrame.
It would be a whole HEAP less trouble using a Z3 as a basis for the car you describe, with a ZHP engine swap.